13. Jenn Harper and Cheekbone Beauty: Using Business To Do Good In The World
EPISODE 13
Sustainability in beauty is not just a trend; it's a responsibility. In conversation with the award-winning Jenn Harper, founder of Cheekbone Beauty, we explored the innovation behind sustainable beauty. From establishing an Indigenous innovation lab blending traditional wisdom with modern science, to creating eco-friendly, biodegradable beauty products and appearing on Dragon's Den, Cheekbone Beauty is redefining what it means to be a beauty brand with a conscience.
Catch the Conversation
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Jenn Harper: A Beacon of Innovation in Beauty and Philanthropy
Jenn Harper is not just a name in the beauty industry; she's a revolution. An award-winning social entrepreneur and international speaker, Jenn is the trailblazing founder and CEO of Cheekbone Beauty Cosmetics—a brand that has gracefully painted the ideals of sustainability and inclusion onto a global canvas. From its inception in 2015, Jenn has nurtured Cheekbone Beauty into a B. Corp Certified force, now gracing the shelves of Sephora Canada and 550 JC Penney locations across the USA.
Jenn's journey with Cheekbone began as a digitally native, direct-to-consumer brand that took pride in its commitment to reducing environmental impact and supporting Indigenous communities. Her formidable leadership made sure Cheekbone stood out not only for its stunning products but also for its ethical backbone—it became a symphony of transparency, philanthropy, and support for women and youth. To date, over $250,000 have been donated to philanthropic causes, testament to Cheekbone's core values.
Cheekbone's prestige has been hard-earned. In 2019, Jenn Harper made a confident appearance on Canada's Dragon's Den, the nation's equivalency of Shark Tank. While she turned down offers, her unwavering resolution steered Cheekbone towards exponential growth. Jenn's tactical negotiations led to expansive contracts with major retailers in North America, shining a beacon of inspiration for Indigenous women by placing an Indigenous CEO-led brand on equal footing with global industry giants.
Jenn Harper stands as more than a CEO; she is a voice for entrepreneurship, exerting influence on topics that are reshaping the business landscape: social entrepreneurship, empathy, representation, inclusivity, and sustainability. Regularly sought after for her insights, Jenn weaves her narrative as both a woman and a representative of North America's Indigenous peoples, substantiating the importance of these values in today's business ecosystem.
The accolades accruing to Jenn's name bear the weight of her achievements. In 2022, she was listed among the 100 Women of Influence by Entrepreneur Magazine—a list graced by the likes of Jennifer Lopez and Kim Kardashian. And importantly, in 2023, Jenn was conferred an Honorary Doctorate degree from the Goodman School of Business at Brock University. This honorary degree recognized her unwavering dedication to community betterment and adamant endeavors in championing sustainability.
Jenn Harper, with Cheekbone Beauty, brings forth a narrative of passion, resilience, and authenticity. Her biography is not just about the ascent of a brand; it's the story of a vision brought to life, of barriers broken, and of a future envisioned where commerce and charity coalesce seamlessly, all painted with the strokes of an eco-friendly brush.
You can find Cheekbone Beauty on the Cheekbone Beauty website, (use discount code Figure820 for 20% off your order) as well as Cheekbone Beauty's Instagram. You can connect with Jenn through her personal Instagram and or Linked in profile.
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Julie and Jenn discuss...
The origins of Cheekbone Beauty (00:01:25) Jenn discusses the inception of Cheekbone Beauty. Jenn also shares the dream that inspired her to start a makeup brand and her vision to support her Indigenous community.
Transition to the beauty world (00:04:18) Jenn discusses the transition from selling seafood to the beauty world. Jenn elaborates about the importance of sustainability, representation, inclusivity, and social impact in the beauty space.
Starting the business and early support (00:07:41) Jenn reflects on the support she received and the early stages of building Cheekbone Beauty. Jenn shares her experience of securing early investment from an Indigenous investment fund, enabling the growth of Cheekbone Beauty.
Transition to sustainable and clean products (00:15:05) Jen discusses the transformation of the product line, formulating sustainable products.
Transition to Retail Listing (00:23:06) The transition from direct-to-consumer to listing products in retailers like Sephora and the challenges faced in this shift. The need for capital to support growth and expansion.
Sustainability, Indigenous Innovation, and Indigenous Entrepreneurship (00:29:27) The unique positioning of the brand through Indigenous roots, focusing on sustainability, and the use of Indigenous wisdom in product creation. The increasing presence of Indigenous women in entrepreneurship and the support available for startups in the Indigenous ecosystem.
Sustainable Growth Strategy (00:35:13) The importance of fostering business growth over time and the challenges of managing rapid scaling in a sustainable manner.
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**Julie** (00:00:04) - Welcome to Figure Eight, where we feature inspiring stories of women entrepreneurs who have grown their businesses to seven and eight figures revenue. If you are in the mix of growing a bigger business, these stories are for you. Join us as we explore where the tough spots are, how to overcome them, and how to prepare yourself for the next portion of the climb. I'm your host, Julie Ellis. I'm an author, entrepreneur, and a growth in leadership coach who co-founded, grew, and exited an eight figure business. This led me to exploring why some women achieve great things, and that led to my book, Big Gorgeous Goals. Let's explore the systems, processes, and people that help us grow our businesses to new heights. If you're interested in growing your business, this podcast will help. Now let's get going. Hello and welcome to this episode of Figure Eight. Today I'm in conversation with Jenn Harper. Jenn is the founder of Cheekbone Beauty Cosmetics, originally a direct consumer brand. It took pride in their commitment to reducing their environmental footprint.
**Julie** (00:01:25) - And today, sustainability and inclusion are part of the foundational fabric of who the brand is and what Jenn wants to see in the world. She pitched on Dragon's Den and received investment from somebody else. She has nurtured Cheekbone Beauty into a B Corp and gracing the shelves in Sephora in Canada and JCPenney in the US, and I'm really excited to talk to her today about her entrepreneurial journey. So welcome, Jenn.
**Jenn** (00:01:59) - Thank you for having me.
**Julie** (00:02:01) - Oh, it's so great to talk to you. I'm really excited to hear about your journey and to hear about what you're doing at Cheekbone. What was it that gave you the idea to start a makeup brand?
**Jenn** (00:02:13) - Yeah. So aside from being, I consider myself definitely a beauty junkie, pretty much my entire life, I was not in this business. I was actually in the food industry. But back in January of 2015, I had a literal like pop out of bed, middle of the night dream. In the dream, there is three Native little girls and they're covered in lip gloss.
**Jenn** (00:02:36) - I woke up and I literally grabbed my laptop and starting writing it. What is the foundation of our brand today? And then I wrote to make a lip gloss, because that was part of that dream initially at the time. And then I wanted to like, sell it, but use a portion of the profits to do something to support my Indigenous community. I had no idea what that looked like. I did write down possibly start a scholarship fund in honor of my grandmother, and I think really important to my story was I was learning about my grandparents surviving residential school at the time of having this dream. And also, you know, really important to my journey was I was new to sobriety. I'd actually gotten sober two months before having this dream, and so I feel like I was at this pretty insane intersection of my life, not only like I think healing from, you know, my past and trauma, but also trying to figure out what I was going to do next. And I really paid attention to brands at the time, like Patagonia and Tom shoes.
**Jenn** (00:03:39) - And I remember I kept thinking about it, I did a lot of driving because I was a sales rep for a seafood company, and I would always be thinking about like, why aren't more businesses using their business to do good in the world? And that idea of social impact had always been really important to me, as well as this idea of sustainability. When I was selling seafood, a lot of the conversations I would have with my customers were about sustainable seafood options. And is there a better options and great stories that my chefs could tell on their menus? But yeah, a crazy transition from selling seafood into the beauty world for sure.
**Julie** (00:04:18) - Definitely. And and a big learning curve. I would think in the beginning to figure out how to make products, packaged them. Started direct to consumer e-commerce business. I mean, all the things that came with, you know, it's not just making the product, it's actually getting it into the hands of people.
**Jenn** (00:04:36) - Exactly. I've shared openly that. So that dream January 2015. So for and we didn't end up launching like our e-commerce store until September or sorry, November of 2016. So almost two years later. But in that two year, almost two year period of like developing this business, I literally read like 100 books in in two years. And it was all entrepreneurial journeys, like just the basics of how to build a business financial plan, marketing plan, all those like everything I could get my hands on, I would read and absorb. And then also for me personally at the same time, because I was learning about like my family's past, I was also educating myself on Indigenous issues and where it all started. And it was just like, you know, in this giant few years of like, healing, but learning and really coming into who I think I was supposed to be. But it's amazing how in our lives, you know, when, when trauma and things like that happen. I feel like it really steers us in different directions and really in the wrong direction.
**Jenn** (00:05:48) - And so, you know, really learning about who I was and, and how I literally became whole in accepting who I was and where I came from. And for many years, I had been ashamed of my Indigenous roots and heritage, because I grew up in a country where there's so many stereotypes and people felt a certain way about my people, and those things obviously harmed me in such a negative way. But when I learned the truth of what happened, I was like like, no, like it was an actual moment. Like, oh my God. As this makes so much sense. Okay, now what can I do with my experience to help change this narrative or change this story? And not just for me in my First Nations family, but like create a business that was would be, then become like a beacon of hope. And also this concept that was in the foundation of the early days of Cheekbone Beauty about representation. And I think in the beauty space in particular, we always saw this sort of Eurocentric version of what beauty means, like growing up.
**Jenn** (00:06:50) - For me, it was the supermodels, and never obviously could I relate to any of those supers. Nor I don't think a lot of people can. So. And could we bring a different version of like, just inviting more faces into the beauty space and providing more representation from multiple shades of human beings, from the fairest of fair to the deepest of deep skin tones? And really, this whole idea of inclusivity which has now become so popular.
**Julie** (00:07:18) - And how did you know? So, you know, you have the dream which I think happened at an interesting time because it seems like you were open and ready almost to have that come to you. Like it feels very interesting in that timing to me, how it, how it happened and how you were moved to, to start almost right away after after having it.
**Jenn** (00:07:41) - Yeah. Because who honestly who does that. Who is like, oh, I had a dream about lip gloss. Now I'm going to start a business like and I really think a lot about that now and how no one was stopping me.
**Jenn** (00:07:53) - Like, my family knew what my experience and skill set was. It was not in this beauty space and family and friends. And I think about when we have these early ideas as entrepreneurs, maybe, you know, keeping them to ourselves for as long as possible is the best thing, because people could definitely come into our life and say, you don't know anything about this. Like, what are you thinking? and I am so grateful. Because of sobriety, my family, I literally and friends literally thought, okay, she's sober. She is really happy doing this thing that she thinks she's let's let her think she's going to build a cosmetics company. It's not harming anyone. and maybe them not saying anything is the reason that Cheekbone exists today, right? So, Yeah, it is. It's pretty wild when I think about that. I actually moved forward with that dream and this idea, because we all have dreams and we don't necessarily jump on them right away. Right.
**Julie** (00:08:51) - So true. And it would have been so easy in that early, fragile state for someone to be like, Jenn, what are you what are you really doing? For it to have just been sort of like.
**Jenn** (00:09:01) - Do you want to do something even crazy? I had two friends that I shared this with. One of them even offered me money to do it, which I'm like, you know, when you think of that family and friends round of funding, I was like, it, was she insane to get? And the other one was like, I had all kinds of experience and, you know, working for corporations and was ready there to, like, always like help and support with ideas and building out different plans for the business. And, yeah, it's just it's really interesting that, you know, two of the people that I was surrounding myself with, were really supportive of, of this idea at the time.
**Julie** (00:09:37) - And how quickly did you go from sort of the dream with the three Indigenous girls covered in lipgloss to the all women, all skin tones kind of inclusive viewpoint of what you wanted to create?
**Jenn** (00:09:51) - Yeah, I definitely, you know saw that missing in the space one. you know no one ever sees women over 40.
**Jenn** (00:09:59) - We don't see people who, you know, are any in, in any like there were so many people missing from what we see represented and, and it was like the list could go on. And so never mind just being Indigenous and not seeing that. And then what came into play later, as I was building this out, was I really didn't have the dollars or the funding to build out essentially the products that I wanted to see in the world. so we knew this idea of representation, inclusivity was super important. That was foundational. But there was also this side of like, okay, I really would love to build on this idea of sustainability. And can we as businesses make products that aren't impacting humans and the planet in a negative way? And was that possible? And so didn't have the funding to start out that way, but also never let that leave sort of the the background and had this vision of, okay, we can start this way. And maybe I just really want to prove is there a market.
**Jenn** (00:11:07) - And I knew from my experience in sales and marketing that you really do have to test sometimes and see if there's an actual market for something. And so using what is called white label or private label, that's how we had to start using packaging. And formulations that were not our own. They did. They were someone else's was how we started. And, so it was married into this idea that we we wanted to test this market and then and then see eventually if we could transform it into the products that we now sell today.
**Julie** (00:11:40) - Yeah. And so when you first went online, you had a very basic product line that obviously has grown and changed over time. How quickly did you know that you had something that people wanted, what you were bringing to market?
**Jenn** (00:11:55) - Yeah, it was in that first year and then going into the second year, just seeing the dramatic jump in sales in revenue, right. You're like, whoa, this is like a side hustle and this is what's happening. And we were gaining so much attention.
**Jenn** (00:12:08) - Like I remember going to the my manager, my boss at the seafood company because we were going into a flare article and like in this was I was still working for them. So I was like, had to be like, oh, I have this business on this side. Just so you know, because I was like, oh, like, I, I didn't expect it to, I guess, to get that much attention that quickly. But it did. And there was tons of PR moments over the next few years and then tons of growth. And and it was in that first year that I was like, okay, not only so this market is here and interested in this idea of an Indigenous beauty brand, but they were also very interested in what I was interested in was this different way of making products, because so many of the customers were like, what's in this? Where does this come from? Where does the this ingredient wired like, is there different options for. So all kinds of questions related to the same things that concerned me and the numbers that that was happening at was such a tremendous amount that I knew we would need funding in order to grow the business that I essentially really dreamt about growing.
**Jenn** (00:13:17) - And, that that was going to take a lot more effort. However, I also was really aware that I'm not a celebrity and influencer and no experience in the beauty industry. So I had no honestly had no clue who would ever invest in this business.
**Julie** (00:13:32) - Right? And so you started with friends and family?
**Jenn** (00:13:36) - Well, no, technically, I had ended up meeting at, you know, the right place at the right time. This startup called Raven Capital. And so they were the first Indigenous investment fund that invests in businesses based on social impact. And so they're based out of Vancouver, Canada. I was in an event in Ottawa, one of their founders co-founders was at that same event. We stayed in touch. That was 2018, and then by 2019 started meeting with their team and really like getting to know one another and feel if there was alignment here. So we found someone to invest in the business and at a really early stage. and it was just before taping Dragon's Den, and I had the term sheet that they had given me, which it was an offer that I didn't even know existed.
**Jenn** (00:14:30) - It was called convertible debt. And they were going to give us $350,000. and that could be converted into equity, or we could pay it back as debt. It would be entirely up to us. But what could we do with that kind of money? in a year and see if we could build out this version of being this brand that is focused on sustainability.
**Julie** (00:14:54) - Yeah. And so that's when then you get into order, like being able to order larger quantities and formulate your own products, and then you have money to start doing things the way you want to do them.
**Jenn** (00:15:05) - Exactly. And by March 2020, we had launched our first product based on this new model of being sustainable, vegan and clean. And that was our sustain lipstick and that was the first product we had made where we, you know, we worked with Outsource Chemists. and then in 2020 is when we knew we were like, we wanted to build this lab that we had spoken to our investors about as well, at our headquarters in Saint Catherines, and really hire a full time chemist so that we could work on so many more formulations to transform the entire line to what it is today.
**Julie** (00:15:42) - So that's a big journey in four years basically. Yeah. From I think, you know, now we'll build the lab to transforming the entire line and I'm sure introducing new products as well during that time.
**Jenn** (00:15:56) - Yeah, exactly. I yeah, it's it feels like just yesterday at the same time, it feels like, like, forever at the same time. But it did, I guess did happen relatively quickly when I, when I think back, But it was so, you know, when you're. I think it's that passion that you have about building and creating that you're, like, really immersed in all the new products that we wanted to come out with and thinking about how we could really do things differently in the stories we wanted to tell surrounding the products and how this whole concept of, you know, coming at this from a as a small indie brand and really wondering, you know. Why these giant conglomerates in our beauty, in the beauty space haven't done these things when there they had, you know, these opportunities for years of just choosing different wrong ingredients or ways to make their formulations and just proving that you could create things that were, you know, more naturally derived, that are still efficacious, bringing this idea of like sustainable beauty to this, this bold, clean color category.
**Julie** (00:17:06) - And it feels like so many things that you've done have really been on this sort of leading edge of change that is happening in the industry.
**Jenn** (00:17:15) - Yeah, I mean we're super small. So I'm, I'm well, I doubt we'll ever get much credit for anything. But I feel certainly as the small team that we are, we are really trying to think differently about how things are made and be really transparent with our audience, which I think in the beauty space has been there's a lot of like sort of secretive things that happen, which is really interesting because our ingredient lists are all in the outside of all of our packages. Right. And so, we really just got open about talking about and, and you know, why we choose, you know, we never vilify things. We don't say things are bad, but there's reasons why we don't use ingredients or packaging that would be considered controversial. And if you ask us about why we're choosing to use, this type of packaging, like there's a reasons why we make all of the decisions we make based on the formulation that's going into that kind of packaging.
**Jenn** (00:18:12) - And, and we're really just open and honest with our customers about how we do things. And, you know, we get to work on a lot of exciting projects. One, being based out of the Niagara region, we we were taking grape waste from the grape industry and extracting actives because we really want to at some point in our business, we've proven that it works. We were worked on this for four years, but create our own wrong ingredients so that, you know, we have some a little bit of IP and ownership when it comes to our formulations and how we could really be uniquely positioned in the market. But, yeah, it's it's been like it's insane to think about how far we've come, but there's still so much more work to do always. Right? The more you're learning, the more you recognize. There's still a ton of work to do, but super proud of all the things we've accomplished to this point.
**Julie** (00:19:04) - and, well, and certainly I mean, you've built a really well known indie brand.
**Julie** (00:19:08) - I mean, people know you and, I think and value what it is that you have to say and what you're talking about.
**Jenn** (00:19:17) - Yeah, I, I still feel like we're so small, like there's still so much work to do. But. Yeah. Thank you.
**Julie** (00:19:24) - Yeah. You're welcome. I know it is one of those curious things we were talking before a little bit about just that, like, you know, the problem solving that comes with. Right. And how, you know, bigger business, bigger problems. But you can kind of use what you've learned along the way to keep, you know, pushing it forward and and getting the help that you need. And you know, how you kind of keep that from slowing you down. I guess it's I'm curious about.
**Jenn** (00:19:53) - Yeah. So when I think about the kind of problems that we face now versus the ones way back when they start there, they are so much bigger. But because you have the experience of going through the the smaller problems, it kind of prepares you for the bigger ones, but it never get like, this is one thing I just have learned.
**Jenn** (00:20:14) - This is never going to get easier. Like it's just not like that's not in the in the cards for this, this path that I've chosen to be in entrepreneurship and, and sort of lead the, the business. Right. That it's. Yeah, it's never getting easier. And it's funny you just get comfortable with that right.
**Julie** (00:20:33) - Well and I mean you said now you have more data to use to help you make the decisions to do more research about what your customers want, what they buy from you, those kinds of things. but it is that thing of you've got to be thinking about how you want to make decisions because it is bigger and more complicated and you don't want to get stuck.
**Jenn** (00:20:54) - Exactly, exactly. And you can become like, we're in in an industry where newness is really important. So you have to constantly be thinking about what's new, what's what would be the next big product that you think the consumer wants to see. And that is industry wide. So if you're not doing that, you really will get lost and forgotten.
**Julie** (00:21:18) - Right. Yeah. Like there's the like new products, new colors of existing products, new like all the different kind of pieces that go in.
**Jenn** (00:21:27) - Not just from like one brand you can see. It's like the newness of the idea of even a new brand is like very exciting in our space. And so you're, you're competing with more and more and more brands, never mind based on the products and how, you know, we're in a space to where it's like, okay, how innovative can you get or afford to get really, because innovation is really costly.
**Julie** (00:21:52) - Yeah, yeah. And thinking that, yes, you see brands that come in and it's because they've innovated something in some way and it you know, now with, with things like TikTok and Instagram, you know, things get discovered and and blow up and, and so you're sort of having to play in that playground of keeping current and making sure that you have things to talk about.
**Jenn** (00:22:14) - Yeah, it's in Sephora in the US and actually now has a shelf that it's like called the For You page.
**Jenn** (00:22:22) - So it's like this has gone viral on TikTok shelf in the it's coming to Canada as well. But yeah, it's like it's a different world that we live in for sure. I think from how brands were built even five, ten years ago, it's completely, never mind 20 years ago. This is a whole different world where in our beauty space it's definitely about virality, but it's also which I really think is interesting because a lot of the products, some of them that we see go viral, aren't necessarily new. I know one foundation that just went viral, it's it was it's been launched for like three years before it went viral. So I think it'll be a matter of the what, you know, what influencer gets their hands on it and talks about it. Yeah.
**Julie** (00:23:06) - Yes. And how it gets watched and people want to try it and all the things. Yes. Yeah. And so what's it been like for you moving from being strictly direct to consumer to listing your products in places like Sephora?
**Jenn** (00:23:20) - Yeah.
**Jenn** (00:23:20) - So in a very short period of time, we launched in Sephora Canada and we're in 60 locations across the country. And then last year we launched in JCPenney in the United States in 609 locations. And wow. full disclosure, I've never had any experience me personally working with retailers. I've been in the hospitality world and that was my experience. And so this has been a complete learning curve, and I had to recognize all the things that I didn't know. And we really had to hire, people that have beauty industry experience and specifically worked with these retailers. So last year, we hired an organization called Maverick that really manages our relationship with Sephora Canada. And we hired a consultant. That manager is that is sort of our managing partner for for JCPenney in the United States. And if it wasn't for these two women, we would not be doing well in either of these locations because it's very interesting that, you know, sometimes we don't even know the questions to ask. And I don't think these large retailers even know how to support a small business that doesn't know anything about their world.
**Jenn** (00:24:40) - Right. And so, with the case of Sephora, I wish we would have made that that decision sooner to work with the, the, the organization that's helping us. then later, but hindsight, I mean, you you can't go back. And so I'm glad we're in the position we are now because things are going much better with, definitely our, our, our work and growth at Sephora in Canada. And, yeah, we're really focused on the Canadian market right now. I feel like as a Canadian brand, we most certainly should be the brand of choice for for Canadians to be using and thinking about. There's not many of us that are in this space and, and, that's, that's really our push right now. You know, is to grow this Canadian audience.
**Julie** (00:25:28) - Which is great and mean and hopefully, you know, people will take up the home grown option versus, you know, the many other ones that come from all over the world that are out there.
**Jenn** (00:25:41) - Yeah. And it's so funny because, the, the, our team in store in Vancouver, we have a sales rep in, in Toronto.
**Jenn** (00:25:51) - it's really tough. Like they're really open. And if you think about Sephora, this is like a Mecca playground for all things beauty. But the people, like we all know about the sort of the teens going in there, and it's all about what's on TikTok and going viral. And people just go in and they already have these ideas about what they're there to buy, right? And so that it has been truly a challenge being a small indie brand, to even create brand awareness and get recognized and get people to try our products. So that's the space that we're in, is because we're really competing against these big, big players.
**Julie** (00:26:31) - Yeah. And who have a lot of money, like little.
**Jenn** (00:26:34) - Girls to make us go viral on Tik Tok.
**Julie** (00:26:37) - Yeah. Yeah, but it's true, right? You think those big brands, they have the money to send reps into all the Sephora stores and do all the things to make sure that their products are heard about, talked about and known. And so it is, I think, a challenge from that small side, to how do you build that awareness?
**Jenn** (00:27:01) - Definitely a lot slower of a plan that I once envisioned.
**Jenn** (00:27:05) - I think as an entrepreneurial, we want these things to grow a lot faster, but I think being realistic about the speed of growth is really important.
**Julie** (00:27:13) - Yeah. And yeah, and keeping up the social media profile and like building their audience in that way so that, you know, your consumers will buy from you online. But we'll also walk into Sephora because they're looking for something else, and they will ask for your brand.
**Jenn** (00:27:30) - Yeah. And we really, you know, we want to tap into that Sephora customer, because we recognize it's probably not the same person as a Cheekbone customer.
**Julie** (00:27:40) - Right, right. So it's that's part about market growth really. Yeah. Growing to new consumers and different consumers. Yeah. And so from that from that first investment like I just think about managing all the SKUs with all those colors like and all those products and you know, thinking about when you make a physical thing, what are like the hard parts about that. Right. And so, you know, yeah, you get the investment and then you can do new products, have a lab, hire a chemist.
**Julie** (00:28:14) - But then the business grows and then you need more capital to have more inventory for places like 600 stores in JCPenney is not small.
**Jenn** (00:28:24) - No. Yeah. So Raven has been our investment partner, along the journey, and I think we're they've invested $1.8 million in our brand since we, we started our relationship. Yeah. And it it just, you know, it requires capital to do what we're doing. And each stage of the way of growth, you know, if the, you know, our goal is to grow Sephora Canada to get into Sephora USA. And again, that would be another huge time when we would need more capital to make that happen.
**Julie** (00:28:58) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then keep on with the, you know, expanding your research and development and continuing to dream up great new things that you can bring to market. And it's because you never nothing ever goes away, right? In all of those circles of things that you're just adding more.
**Jenn** (00:29:17) - Yeah. And we're really, you know, in terms of innovation, this whole it's this idea for us, like we really look to my Indigenous roots on how we make and create things.
**Jenn** (00:29:27) - And we're really trying to uniquely position ourselves, you know, as the only we are the only Indigenous brand that builds and makes things from our own lab, and doing it using concepts or teachings that were passed down in our culture for generations. And when we honestly think about the relationship Indigenous people have with the land, it's very unique and it's very special. And we take these teachings into that lab. We call it our Indigenous Innovation Lab, and it's marrying Indigenous wisdom with Western science to make the products that we make. And so we think about packaging and we think about the raw materials of the formulation. And we want to make things that are biodegradable, like our makeup is not made from, you know, silicones that won't disappear, like the raw ingredients need to hit, and be biodegradable in order to not impact our ecosystems. And negative way we look at refill ability, composability, biodegradability when it comes to packaging second third life of plastics. So using PCR as a plastic material versus virgin plastics and why we would need plastic in some cases is based on the formulation that we're actually putting into that product and the the longevity of it or shelf life, if you will.
**Jenn** (00:30:48) - And so there's so many sort of nuances surrounding those things. And, and we really want to be the brand here that's helping people get educated and understanding what these all mean. Because a lot of brands and businesses, we can use these terms. But in in unfortunately, in many cases there's a lot of greenwashing that happens. And so helping people understand, you know, what kind of consumer do you want to be and sort of what brands would you align yourself based on that.
**Julie** (00:31:16) - Yeah. And then also do you have constraints like when you're using manufacturers, you know, how big do you have to get before you can start pushing them to give you a more environmental option on packaging or something like that?
**Jenn** (00:31:32) - Yeah, exactly.
**Julie** (00:31:34) - Yeah, that would definitely be a challenge as well.
**Jenn** (00:31:37) - Yeah. For sure.
**Julie** (00:31:40) - Yeah. And so I'm just thinking about your sort of comment about, you know, the when you started this business, you never imagined the continuous sort of learning and growth curve that happens with growing a business.
**Julie** (00:31:54) - And I do think that's a really big part of entrepreneurship. You know, that idea of if you I do always think if you actually know what you're doing, something's going to happen, like it's right around the corner because it's so rare that you feel like you know what you're doing. It's that constant like growth mindset, learning and how we then, you know, integrate that and use the skills to sort of lever forward into the next unknown.
**Jenn** (00:32:22) - Yeah. I would be really scared too, if I was on a path where I was like. I really feel like I've got this under control and figure it out. I would definitely be worried. So and I don't I haven't felt that way in many, many years. So, Yeah. Oh, no. The unknown is. It's so real and that it's just like every day has its new challenge, like it ultimately does when we're trying to figure things out. Like it doesn't matter what's happening. We have so many projects always on the go, and at some point in each project there's like, okay, is this the right thing we should be doing? You know, this worked for that situation and sure enough, it doesn't work for the next situation.
**Jenn** (00:33:04) - And so it's constantly solving problems is really I feel like are my main role. Yeah.
**Julie** (00:33:12) - And do you see now that you've been an entrepreneur for a number of years and building this business, are there more Indigenous women coming into entrepreneurship? Like do you see any changes in that in the time that you've been doing this?
**Jenn** (00:33:27) - Yeah, absolutely. There's I feel like there's a lot more, businesses that have come out of our communities. There's an organization that's called Powwow Pitch, and it's almost like, a really it's a platform or a group that's supporting sort of new startups in this Indigenous ecosystem. And I've seen them grow dramatically since we started. And so for me, that's full on evidence that this Indigenous business ecosystem is growing. And I know the CAB, which is the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business, has information or data as well on, you know, the amount of Indigenous entrepreneurs that come in into the into the space. And it has grown dramatically over the years as well.
**Julie** (00:34:16) - And that's good. Yeah.
**Julie** (00:34:18) - And just thinking about, you know, our comments about, how much investment they're getting and yeah, you know, very, very small.
**Jenn** (00:34:27) - Yeah. thankfully organizations like Raven Capital are now in, in the world to support us. but, you know, they are a they are a VC fund at the same time. And so we know how hard it is to get any VC fund to pay attention to any business. Right. And we know that for women it's even more challenging than most.
**Julie** (00:34:52) - Yeah. I think it's remarkable though that you've found a great partnership. you know where you're being supported over a longer period of time. as you grow the business and, you know, come back with your, the success from the what you got from the last round of funding, to build that partnership because I think that certainly has to help.
**Jenn** (00:35:13) - Yeah. And I think it's like you said, with this idea of time, I recognize that, you know, and this is I think what happens in the funding space is maybe we're not giving businesses the time that they need to actually be fostered and grow properly in scale, that it's in, to scale in a way that is helpful and not detrimental to the business.
**Jenn** (00:35:38) - Right? I actually just had a call with the Sephora team, and, you know, a product going viral is great, but there's going to be a spike. But then there's also a huge downturn or downfall. And that's not healthy for any business. And so it's important that you're you're scaling slowly in the right direction. Yeah.
**Julie** (00:35:58) - Well and you just think of. Going viral, needing the money to buy the inventory because you probably don't have the inventory you need. So you're going to go out of stock. And then when you're back in stock, do people want it? Like there's a lot of questions that come with those sort of high high and low lows right. Yes yes yes. Yeah. So well I think that slow and steady is definitely or a little bit medium speed and steady is maybe what we all want when we're trying to figure out, you know, the best ways to grow and how to keep it sustainable and how to manage our numbers and our cash and all the things that go into growing.
**Jenn** (00:36:39) - Yeah. And, you know, in the early days, I would have only imagined, I guess, being where we are, but then also still really wanting that fast growth. But I've transformed how I think about that. And I think that comes with business maturity.
**Julie** (00:36:55) - and finding the, the sort of strategic side of, you know, at like, yes, you want to have opportunity and take those opportunities, but you want to have the strategy about how you want to grow and, and, and then how you can kind of manage that, you know, from a capacity perspective on a lot of different fronts.
**Jenn** (00:37:14) - Yes, exactly.
**Julie** (00:37:17) - Good. Well, I thank you so much for our conversation today. It was really great talking to you. And, I'm so excited to see where the brand goes next. And for all the listeners, we'll put all your links in the show notes so they can find you online. And, go and find her at Sephora too, and ask for the brand, because, we got to grow it.
**Julie** (00:37:37) - We got to get it where we where everybody knows your name.
**Jenn** (00:37:40) - Yes. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure talking to you as well.
**Julie** (00:37:46) - I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Please remember to hit subscribe on your favorite podcast. So you won't miss any episodes. Figure Eight isn't just a podcast. It's a way of seeing the big, gorgeous goals of women entrepreneurs coming to life. If you're interested in learning more, you can find my book, Big Gorgeous Goals on Amazon anywhere you might live. For more about my growth and leadership training programs, visit www.julieellis.ca to see how we might work together. Read my blog or sign up to get your free diagnostic. Are you ready for growth? Once again. That's www.julieellis.ca when we work together, we all win. See you again soon for another episode of Figure Eight.