45. Scaling a Photography Startup to $10 Million with Jennifer Yeh
EPISODE 45
Jennifer Yeh, COO of Shoott, transformed her startup photography business from $800K to over $10M in revenue in just six years by expertly connecting photographers with busy families. She shares her journey of pivoting from targeting influencers to serving moms, navigating major challenges like iOS privacy changes, and maintaining company values while scaling across 60 cities.
Catch the Conversation
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Jennifer Yeh, COO of Shoott, transformed her startup photography business from $800K to over $10M in revenue in just six years by expertly connecting photographers with busy families. She shares her journey of pivoting from targeting influencers to serving moms, navigating major challenges like iOS privacy changes, and maintaining company values while scaling across 60 cities.
Jennifer Yeh is the co-founder and COO of Shoott, a female-led startup revolutionizing access to professional photography across 60+ cities. With over 20 years of experience in entrepreneurship, operations, and creative problem-solving, she specializes in streamlining processes and driving growth. Jennifer’s leadership has helped Shoott scale from $800K to over $10 million in annual revenue while maintaining a lean, efficient team. Passionate about innovation and lifelong learning, she combines her expertise in the performing arts, economics, technology, and marketing to help organizations do more with less and turn challenges into opportunities.
You can connect with Jennifer on LinkedIn.
You can also learn more about Shoott on their website, LinkedIn or Instagram.
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1:34
Jennifer Yeh's Eclectic Career Journey
4:50
Creating Shoot: The Photography Startup
10:00
Finding Product-Market Fit with Moms
16:11
Growth and Investment Decisions
20:18
Pivoting to Profitability After iOS Changes
25:10
Hitting $10M and Future Expansion Plans
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Julie: 0:04
Welcome to Figure 8, where we feature inspiring stories of women entrepreneurs who have grown their businesses to seven and eight figures revenue. If you're in the mix of growing a bigger business, these stories are for you. Join us as we explore where the tough spots are, how to overcome them and how to prepare yourself for the next portion of the climb. I'm your host, Julie Ellis. I'm an author, entrepreneur and a growth and leadership coach who co-founded, grew and exited an eight-figure business. This led me to exploring why some women achieve great things, and that led to my book Big Gorgeous Goals. Let's explore the systems, processes and people that help us grow our businesses to new heights. If you're interested in growing your business, this podcast will help. Now let's get going.
Julie: 1:04
Hello and welcome to this episode of Figure 8. Today I am in conversation with Jennifer Yeh, and Jennifer is in charge of a really interesting business called Shoott and prior to that, she's done a whole lot of really interesting and diverse things, like creating a children's clothing line, freelancing as a brand manager for local small businesses, procuring bids with Fortune 500 companies, and so a real range, and I think that leads to such interesting and rich stories. Her current startup you know she's led them from the early days to over 9 million of revenue in just five years. So amazing progress and how you grow a business, make it profitable and scale up. Lots of stories there and I'm super interested to chat with her today, so welcome Jennifer.
Jennifer: 2:00
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Julie: 2:02
Yeah, thanks for joining me. I'm so interested in your journey because my own path has been very eclectic and I think it makes it so interesting what you get to tackle and why and I mean how would you say you think that's helped you.
Jennifer: 2:17
Yeah. So I think the benefit of having I like your term eclectic because it definitely is I like your term eclectic because it definitely is is that I think it gives you a lot of breadth of experience and different kind of experience, so that when you do go into a new situation for me, especially going into shoot as a COO it gives you a different perspective than maybe what other people may have. And I think a lot of times that's good, because it really helps with innovation and helping to see things from not just everybody else's perspective but from something new that oftentimes will enable us to solve a problem in a way that we haven't thought of before. And that is really good sometimes because it helps us not get stuck in the rut of trying things that everybody else has tried but maybe hasn't worked so well. For example, you know we can think of more creative ways of going about something and then get around it faster and more efficiently, right.
Julie: 3:18
Well, and it is interesting because, you know, I've seen in my experience where people who can be successful in some of those Fortune 500 companies cannot always translate down to something that's very tiny.
Jennifer: 3:32
Yes, you have to be really nimble with the way you think right, because every situation is different and I think when you're so used to pivoting a lot or doing a lot of different things, you learn to pick up context a lot faster, because you have to, and then you're not stuck in one mode of thinking Like it's just it's easier to, I think, learn, learn new things, because you're always doing new things. Yeah.
Julie: 3:55
Yes, well, and it strikes me that like that, learning new things and doing new things really kind of has characterized you, that you don't stop moving, you're always. You know, your hands are always in something and you're always doing something different.
Jennifer: 4:08
Yeah, for sure. I thi nk one of the things that really drive me and motivate me is curiosity and doing lots of different things, and even now, in my position, having to wear so many different hats uh, continues to kind of feed my motor to there's something new to learn right and something new to master, and yeah,
Julie: 4:28
Yeah, and like how did you then come in sort of 2018, how did you come to shoot and how did you, you know, it's such an interesting business. I think, um, you know, and I mean beautiful photography is something people want, especially when they have important moments in their lives or children or those kinds of things. They want to document those moments.
Jennifer: 4:50
Yeah for sure. So actually in 2018, at the beginning part of it, I was still working in corporate America founder had another co-founder that she met and they were like hey, let's start a photography company that can both benefit you know, everyday people consumers, but also photographers and helping them have a much better gig life balance to be able to do what they love. And as they were talking about it and started kind of trying new things, they were like we really need somebody, like a third person who, you know, can help think for us, who can help execute and do all that stuff. And she immediately thought of me. So she basically called me up one day. She's like hey, I have a new opportunity for you. Would you be interested? And obviously me saying oh, this is something new. I can learn so much from doing something like this. It was a little scary because it is I'm going from something very stable to something that's a little bit unknown was exciting for me. So that's that's how I got involved.
Julie: 5:50
Nice, and I mean you had some pretty immediate success.
Jennifer: 5:56
Yes, so we were, I would say, the first year, maybe the first half of the year. It was a little hard in the sense that we were still really trying to figure out who our ideal customer was, because we started the business thinking that it would be more influencers, because at that time Instagram was really picking up and the influencer community was really starting to grow. But we realized really quickly that it actually wasn't influencers, it was families, just by fluke. We were like, hey, this is kind of working, kind of not. And we started in New York City and we were like you know, new Jersey is right next door, why don't we just go there and just see what happens? And what we found out was everybody who signed up were all moms. And we're like, hold on, that makes sense, right, because they're looking to capture those milestones.
Julie: 6:46
And from there on out we really took off. Yeah, it's so interesting, right, Like just how? Yeah, you don't even know. You're searching for your product, market fit basically.
Jennifer: 6:53
Yeah, or we realized that we were wrong in terms of like who we thought would be our customer base and instead of, you know, trying to be like no, we need to make it work. This should work. We're like all right, let's just go to where it does work.
Julie: 7:07
Yeah Well, and moms are sort of evergreen. There is a new mom every how many seconds being made.
Jennifer: 7:15
So, you know, women are the key decision makers in health care?
Julie: 7:18
Yes, they are.
Jennifer: 7:19
Yeah, yeah, in terms of, like, controlling those financial decisions and the one who wants those photos to put around their house and those kinds of things
Jennifer: 7:30
And they're in control of the schedule, so they know when it's possible.
Julie: 7:33
Exactly
Julie: 7:34
Yeah, and so how did you know I mean, you got all moms that signed up with that one in New Jersey how did you know you were kind of on to something?
Jennifer: 7:43
So after that we were like all right, it seems like moms are our key demographic. So it was pretty simple in the sense that then we went back to New York City and we started marketing it to specifically to moms. So that took off. And then we're like okay, let's just start expanding. So we extended into the suburbs, started expanding into different cities. So we next went to California because we're like what are the largest cities in the US? Right, that's, you're going to have a lot more people to try it out, a lot more data to to basically test out. And from there it was just very simple in a sense. We started advertising a lot more on Facebook, because that's where most of the moms were, and it was a little bit like shooting fish in a barrel up until iOS 14 privacy changes came along. That different story really had to pivot for that. But all in all, it's always been moms and really women who are going through major life milestones.
Julie: 8:37
Right, and so you're just a quick, you're going to shoot, you match photographers and people looking for photography.
Jennifer: 8:47
Yeah, so we're a little bit different. So a lot of platforms actually do that. Where you can put in your information, they find a photographer, connect the two of you. So we do something a little different in the sense that we actually put up the schedule on the site and clients can go and they'll find what works for them and their schedule. And then we take a look at all the photographers in our network, look at their schedules and say who is actually available, who is a good fit for what these people are looking for, and then we match them on the back end. So what ends up happening is a photographer only needs to show up in one location, like an outdoor park, and the clients will basically follow to them. They have a day of back-to-back sessions.
Julie: 9:24
Nice, so they don't have to worry about how they control that calendar. So you kind of make it easy for them, yes, and you make it easy for the clients to pick the time of day they want and where they want to go in terms of location and that sort of thing Exactly.
Jennifer: 9:40
We have everything picked out and it's free. It's free for them to book there. We have everything picked out and it's free. It's free for them to book. There's no risk involved. So that is. That helps moms a lot, because you don't want to put up a lot of money upfront, get something you don't like and then not be able to get the money back.
Julie: 9:54
Yeah, yep, so you start out in the biggest cities in America and then you grow and you grow fast.
Jennifer: 10:01
At that point, yes, yeah, and you grow fast at that point. Yes, yeah, so we actually grew the most during COVID because at that time we've specialized in outdoor photo shoots. We were one of the few activities that people could actually do outdoors that were naturally distanced, and we also figured out a way to hire photographers remotely. We used to actually go into each city and we would test shoot everybody, but we found a way to do that virtually so that we didn't have to do that anymore, and so because of that, we could open up a city basically in like five minutes Amazing.
Julie: 10:35
And when you think about how you build a scalable business. It was not scalable for you to keep going to every city and test shooting.
Jennifer: 10:44
No, it wasn't. It was not scalable for you to keep going to every city and test shooting Like no, it was fun. You probably would.
Julie: 10:47
I bet it was fun and you probably would have kept doing it if you could have.
Jennifer: 10:51
Yes, yes, and that is one of the kind of beautiful things about challenges sometimes Like they can feel really difficult, really scary, but then that's also an opportunity to become really creative. Yeah.
Julie: 11:06
Yeah, yeah, and to think about how you can solve your problems differently. Right, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. So, as you were growing, what kind of investments did you have to make? I mean, you know people talk about running out, technology doesn't work anymore, all of those things. What were the things that were key milestones for you on that journey?
Jennifer: 11:25
Yeah, so I would say the very first thing Okay. So when we first started we created what we call MVP right, minimum Biobar products. So we did that. On a lot of you know, free database softwares are out there. We're like, let's just see if it works. Growth we were like, okay, now we actually need to redevelop and revamp our entire backend so that it could actually support that volume.
Jennifer: 11:57
So we basically spent a year and actually built a real database, rebuilt a lot of the tools, rebuilt the website, everything so that we could sustain, because the last thing we wanted was to have so much demand and have everything break and that's bad for brand image, that's just bad all around. So that was the first key thing that we did and along with that we also started to hire more people on our tech team. So our tech team, our developers, are all in-house. We don't outsource that, and that obviously was very expensive but very well worth it, and because of that we've been able to continue to grow at the rate that we have been growing. So that was the first most important thing.
Jennifer: 12:37
And then I would say the next key piece of investment was really in marketing. So the majority of our expenses is actually in marketing. It's about, I would say, maybe 40% of our expenditures, and because our service in itself is something that once people try, they really love. So our challenge was to make sure just to get enough to get in front of enough people. It's really a numbers game for us, right? So we spent a lot of money on marketing, invested a lot. We had, you know, our angel funders and you know, friends and family around to help us fund that, and so we spent a lot of money on Google ads, facebook ads, instagram ads and such.
Julie: 13:14
Yeah, and how did you know you would need to get investors? At what point could you see that and were you interested in doing that? Is that Did you think of it when you started the business? How did that come around?
Jennifer: 13:26
Yeah. So when we first started, we definitely knew that we needed investment, just because neither my co-founder or I have the money to be able to do that. But our other co-founder he actually has a great network and he does also like investing on the side for himself, so he basically helped us run that end of it. So we did a very small round with just friends and family and just to get us off the ground so we could at least pay people to be on the team and do the basic things like that.
Jennifer: 13:55
And after that we had debated and then we had started doing the more like venture capitalist round and we decided not to go that route.
Jennifer: 14:03
I mean, there's a lot of pros and cons to that and one of the things that we realized was that we wanted to retain the autonomy to be able to make certain decisions based on what we saw. And because we're run by women and a lot of investors tend to be men and this was very much a female product we wanted to retain the autonomy to be able to make certain decisions on our own and not be constrained by having to hit certain KPIs by a certain date and then have that be at the expense of something that we cared about, so to maintain our brand and what we wanted the brand to stand for. So we decided not to go that route and since then, obviously it's taken us a little bit longer to perhaps grow to what we finally hit 10 million last year but I think we did that while maintaining all the values that we wanted to keep and the way we wanted to run the business and our team and our culture and such.
Julie: 14:51
Yeah, well, congratulations, because 10 million is a big, a big, big, big finish line, starting line to the next one, but a big milestone for you.
Jennifer: 15:02
For sure, for sure, we're very happy.
Julie: 15:04
Yeah. Now you talk about how you increased revenue while keeping your head count the same, or or making it smaller, and I know that we've talked about. You know, in 2021,. You had some very hard decisions to make. Yes, yeah.
Jennifer: 15:20
So we had to cut down on people, partly because up until 2021, our directive our mind was very much just grow as fast as we can. It doesn't matter how much money our investors were. Our friends and family were like, you know, if you just need money to borrow, that's fine. But then the iOS privacy changes and all of a sudden, our entire marketing stack looked different because all of a sudden, the CPAs were just so high. We're like, oh no, if this is going to be sort of the future where, you know, the entire marketing industry was changing, we can't continue to run at this pace and with this mindset and expect to be able to stay in business. So, all of a sudden, in the middle of the year, in June, we were like, all right, instead of growing as fast as we can, we now need to manage really hard for expenses and profitability. So it's a completely different goal. Expenses and profitability so it's a completely different goal.
Jennifer: 16:14
So because of that, we did have to let some people go, because we're like you know, these are really nice to have things that we want for a brand, but in terms of, you know, getting in front of enough people and manage for expenses, it's not a necessity. So what we did, we had to get rid of those roles and sometimes we would consolidate some of those tasks into other people. Other people would take over and do that. So we have to learn to do more with less, but not so much that we burned people out. So the way we did that actually was through really good process cleanup.
Jennifer: 16:43
So if you ever really sit down and you we don't we don't like to micromanage, but we sat down with people and we're like all right, just kind of show us what you do day to day. And even from that simple step of asking and just watching, we were able to pinpoint a lot of places where it was really inefficient. We're like, okay, great, here's an easy way for you to do this faster and that way that saves you time so you could do more, or you, you won't be burnt out, right, you won't have too much on your plate. And that's kind of where AI automation, all this stuff came in. We're like where does it make sense to fit this in so that we still maintain the same standard quality without sacrificing too much resources and time?
Julie: 17:20
Yeah, and how did it change kind of like how you market and the marketing that you do?
Jennifer: 17:34
Yeah, so, surprisingly, we started trying to do a lot more, um, things that weren't necessarily dependent on, like facebook and really facebook, because that was what impacted the most.
Jennifer: 17:39
So we that's why, actually, when we started getting on tiktok, we're like, all right, we need to find other platforms to reach our audience, and we were able to grow you subscriber list, our followers list, pretty well, but nothing still worked better than Facebook.
Jennifer: 17:55
And I think over time, we found other companies. For example, one company that we use is called Black Crow AI and what they do is they score people who come on our site so that we could target them better, so they basically get around the whole privacy issue. Obviously, the people who opt in and they're able to help us curate a better list of people who have higher intent, and using technologies like that, we were able to start bringing down that CPA back down to close to where it was at. But it took a lot of research and a lot of and trying a lot of different companies, cause I think everybody at that time was trying to figure it out and nobody really knew what was happening. So we would try a company, test it out and then maybe we try a different one until we landed on somebody that we thought was worth it.
Julie: 18:41
Yeah, I think it is really interesting, and it is. It shows you the benefit of diversifying too right, Like you know, and getting into TikTok and having like different channels where you are cultivating people.
Jennifer: 18:55
Yeah, the other thing that we did was you know, we often get solicitations through email saying like, hey, I'm a company, I do X, y and Z and while most people might just be like, oh, that's spam or whatever, we actually look at a lot of them and we'll get on calls, even if we're like it's probably not right. But doing so helps us one to make sure that we stay at the forefront of what people are trying to do, so that eventually we can find somebody. We know the questions to ask, we know what's out there and what's possible and what's not.
Julie: 19:25
Right, yeah, and you start to be able to. I would think you are educating yourself as well about like, as you have these calls, you're like okay, no, that might be possible, and it helps to like adjudicate really what you're seeing.
Jennifer: 19:40
Yeah, you learn so much actually from calls like that because you can ask so many questions, right yeah?
Julie: 19:47
Yeah, but thinking that it's valuable to take the time when there's a million other things pressing on you is sometimes hard, I think it is.
Jennifer: 19:55
It is and we try to make the time, and because there's two of us in terms of the co-founders, sometimes we might take them together, sometimes we'll take them separately and then we'll come back together, but it's good to have to continue to evolve our knowledge of what people are trying to do out there to continue to evolve our knowledge of what people are trying to do out there.
Julie: 20:13
Well, and yeah, and I just think it's things are changing so fast, right?
Jennifer: 20:24
Yeah for sure, especially with AI and everything. I feel like it's the same with being a human being or being in a relationship. Right, things are always going to evolve and you have to grow alongside of that in order to stay relevant. Order not to yeah.
Julie: 20:35
Yeah, no, and it's true. I think also like just living in that technology world and having you know all the different pieces that come together of how you attract clients, how you push them down through your website and convert them. All of those pieces. Things are changing so quickly.
Jennifer: 20:53
Yes, Every day Things are changing, so you have to really stay on top of everything. There's no room to be lazy.
Julie: 21:02
Yes, well, and where where are the moms? Cause the mom demographic is always changing too, in terms of where they're meeting up and where they're finding each other, exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, and so now. So you hit that turning point of you need to change, and you need to change fast, because you know you've got to make some changes. You have now managed to get to over $10 million in revenue. So two years, two, three years later, you were able to really make that shift. Yes, yeah, and so now you're back on the growth path, and what would you say like? I think one of the things that happens after you kind of come to 10 million is you start some of those processes, start breaking again. Right, you're in that next shift mode. When you cross over, you're exactly right.
Jennifer: 21:50
Yes, so we're actually right in the middle of re-looking at all our processes as we speak. So one of the things that we haven't ever gotten around to doing was really, really documenting all of our internal platforms that we've built for ourselves and the website to be like what are all the different things that is available for us as tools, because our developers work very fast. When you work so fast, sometimes you forget what you've done and everything like that. Right. So we're in the process of documenting that because, like I said, mentioned before, as we're doing that, that's when we start to see the holes and the cracks and the things that we need to fix or things that were like hey, this is a little outdated. Hey, there's now an AI tool or an agentic thing where we can actually put in there to make things a little more efficient, a little faster, a little better.
Jennifer: 22:37
Right, but it's it's. It's. It's tedious work, but it's very necessary, and we have found that the more we do that, the better we are able to actually have what a lot of people like to call work-life balance. Right. If we document things, that means somebody else can easily come in and do that job. So if you need to take a break or something happens. You need to take care of something. We can all do that and we can continue to grow without burning out, because burnout is so real and if we're not careful and we burn out, then our company is done right. So we have to make sure we take care of people at the same time.
Julie: 23:10
Yeah, well, especially I mean the trajectory right of like being at 800K in 2018 and hitting 10 million six years later, like that's a lot of change and a lot of upward momentum. Yes, which is I mean don't get me wrong, it's what we all want as entrepreneurs. But it's not an easy path. In terms of that, like the learning curve and the constantly thinking, you know why do I feel like I know what I'm doing, Something's going on? Because you always feel a little bit off balance when things are changing so quickly.
Jennifer: 23:44
Yes, for sure, and I think one of the key things that we've learned is that whenever these things, these challenges, come and we're feeling overwhelmed, we'll give ourselves, you know, five minutes to feel overwhelmed and then we're like all right, let's look at this from a different perspective. It's not, it's not a bad thing. This is like it's almost like a game for us, right? Ooh, can we overcome this? Like what is this? Can we solve it? So I think, when we turn, basically when we set aside our emotions of feeling overwhelmed and looking at it more from an objective point of view, it helps us work past that to then actually be on a more productive you know line of thinking, instead of just feeling like, oh my God, how are we going to do this? This is so scary, because that can hold you back, right.
Julie: 24:29
Absolutely Fear. Yes, your fear is one of the things that will cause you to not do the things right.
Julie: 24:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then it's figuring out. You know okay. So you know what's the worst thing that can go wrong. How am I going to watch for it? What will we do if we see things starting to go in the wrong direction? How are we going to retreat those kinds of things? Right, but if you stop moving? I mean, the risk is and I think you know, with all the turmoil in the world right now, even the risk is we try to protect everything we have, but that might be like, you know, the sand is falling through your fingers and really you should be looking for the opportunity.
Jennifer: 25:07
Yes, so one thing that we always say to each other, like you know, every day it's like what is the next right thing to do? So always looking to take the next action right, yeah.
Julie: 25:19
I think that's really great advice, like not looking for where you what you need to do in a year, but like, okay, what's next, and then what's next and then what you know, so that it's those steps you're continuing to step forward yeah, for sure, otherwise it is. It is really overwhelming yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And so now you're in 60 cities across the US, and what's next?
Jennifer: 25:44
So we're hoping to keep on expanding because obviously there's more cities, but also we're thinking about expanding to Canada and probably Mexico, so those are definitely on the docket. For us. There's a lot of, obviously, paperwork and legal stuff to get through, but we do, we would like to expand to those places because obviously there's also many families there and yeah, yeah, and big cities and people are always looking for great photos.
Julie: 26:10
Yeah, like, what are those? What are the baseline things that would make it attractive for you?
Jennifer: 26:15
right, yeah, and we hear the same and we're in a lot of like local mom groups just to continue to listen to what moms are talking about, and obviously you know there are moms everywhere and you know finding affordable photographers and documenting those milestones is really important. It's more important. It may not always feel important at the moment, in the moment, but later on down the line, when you're looking back, that's when you wish you had done some of those things, had more photos.
Julie: 26:41
Nobody ever wishes Well. I think in the moment of trying to manage your photos you feel maybe like you had less photos, but from a memories perspective you never wish you had less photos.
Jennifer: 26:53
Yeah, and it becomes like a family tradition too. Right.
Julie: 26:55
It's like every summer, every holiday season, the family gets together really quick, 30 minutes outdoors, and then yeah doors and then yeah Well, and I suppose the interesting part too would be, if you're traveling somewhere to a different city with to get together with a larger part of your family, like there's a lot of opportunities for you to capture people through all kinds of different events that are happening in their lives.
Jennifer: 27:20
And a lot of people do that, because last thing you really want is for one person to be running back and forth right, so everybody can kind of actually enjoy. It's not just something you do, but it's actually an experience that you can enjoy, you know, really interacting with each other and having somebody professional capture those special moments. So it becomes really genuine too and it's fun for everybody.
Julie: 27:43
And I would think also from the photographer, photographer's side, it is a great, you know, filling a full day with shoots you know a different family every hour or 45 minutes or whatever it is that you know puts a whole day together would also be quite appealing.
Jennifer: 28:02
Yeah. So the thing that we really wanted to do for photographers is to take away all the sort of logistical back office types of things that are just a pain in the butt to do, so that they can just do what they love, right, and we're really great for, I would say, photographers who want that supplemental income. So photographers can have their own side business, they can do their own weddings, they can have their own thing, but if they have maybe like half a day on a weekend to spare, instead of having to exert that effort themselves to find people to fill that, like we do it for them. So it's a win-win situation, right? If they can use us to fill their time and likewise we use them to make our clients happy.
Julie: 28:42
Yeah, I think that's a really great thing. And so more cities, more offerings, more all the things, more countries, yeah.
Jennifer: 28:51
And hopefully at some point. You know we've been trying to think of ways to partner even more with you know salons or people who do makeup or clothing rental, clothing companies right, especially if you're getting a maternity session that you may not want to buy a dress you wear one time but you can rent something really beautiful and have that you know aesthetic of having a beautiful maternity photo to remember for all time. So there's lots of different ancillary services that we can definitely fold in and that's something we're working on to just add more value and make that process even better for clients.
Julie: 29:26
Well, and I mean, what you speak about really is, yeah, more cities building revenue that way, more offerings building revenue that way, and, and hopefully, you. I mean it feels like you have a lot of runway ahead of you and it's going to be really exciting to watch you grow.
Julie: 29:41
Yeah, no for sure. Good. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing about your going concern. I always love chatting with people and hearing about what they're doing in the world. So thank you, yeah, no, thank you, okay, take care.
Julie: 29:58
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