48. Mindful entrepreneurship with Casey carroll
EPISODE 48
Casey Carroll shares her entrepreneurial journey through nonlinear career paths, balancing multiple businesses, and creating transformative experiences for clients through her holistic approach to business and branding.
Catch the Conversation
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Casey Carroll shares her entrepreneurial journey through nonlinear career paths, balancing multiple businesses, and creating transformative experiences for clients through her holistic approach to business and branding.
Casey Carroll (she/her) is an entrepreneur, business strategist, communications professional, and hospitality expert dedicated to building social enterprises rooted in care, creativity, and community. She is Co-Owner of BWB, a holistic brand agency supporting female entrepreneurs and equity-centered businesses, and Coray Kitchen, a farm-to-table restaurant in Delmar, NY.
Casey is also a writer, mother, coach, and facilitator known for her grounded presence and deep love of people. Her work is guided by the vision of creating bigger, longer tables—spaces where people gather, belong, and connect.
A compelling speaker on creativity, customer experience, and culture-building, Casey has delivered talks such as Storytelling for Change, Applied Feminist Business, and Creating Dinners That Feel.
She is the creator of Questions to Hold, a platform exploring inquiry as a revolutionary leadership practice through a podcast, card deck, and in-person experiences that invite reflection, connection, and transformation.
Learn more about Enneagrams:
https://www.seedstowholeness.com/
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2:36
The Power of Nonlinear Career Paths
6:20
Bold Woman Brands and Transformational Work
14:16
Opening a Restaurant and Business Balance
20:46
Questions to Hold: From Practice to Product
29:34
Community Support and Intentional Growth
36:02
Embracing Failure and Finding Joy
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Julie: 0:04
Welcome to Figure 8, Figure where we feature inspiring stories of women entrepreneurs who have grown their businesses to seven and eight figures revenue. If you're in the mix of growing a bigger business, these stories are for you. Join us as we explore where the tough spots are, how to overcome them and how to prepare yourself for the next portion of the climb. I'm your host, Julie Ellis. I'm an author, entrepreneur and a growth and leadership coach who co-founded, grew and exited an eight-figure business. This led me to exploring why some women achieve great things, and that led to my book Big Gorgeous Goals. Let's explore the systems, processes and people that help us grow our businesses to new heights. If you're interested in growing your business, this podcast will help. Now let's get going.
Julie: 1:04
Hello and welcome to this episode of Figure 8.
Julie: 1:07
Today, I am joined by Casey Carroll. Casey is a driven entrepreneur and a business strategist, communications professional and a hospitality expert, so she brings a whole variety of skills to the table in her entrepreneurial ventures, and right now, she has two of them. She is the co-owner of Bold Woman Brands, BWB, a holistic brand agency focused on women entrepreneurs, female entrepreneurship and equity, and also Coray Kitchen, which is a restaurant in Del Mar, New York, so that feels like it's going to be a really interesting conversation with different things. So that feels like it's going to be a really interesting conversation with different things. Casey has over a decade of extensive study and exploration in transformative leadership, energy and consciousness, contemplative practices in her professional pursuits and she's the creator of Questions to Hold, which is a deck of cards that I personally love and adore. So I'm super happy to dive in with you and welcome, Casey.
Casey: 2:06
Thank you, I'm so grateful to be here and I'm so grateful to be with all the listeners today too.
Julie: 2:10
I'm so glad to have you and I feel like this conversation is kind of long overdue because we've known each other for quite a long time. Yeah, so tell me about I love the like eclectic path. I mean, that's my kind. Of history is very eclectic and I really am always interested in seeing how people end up in those spaces and what the exploration leads to. So what can you tell me about that for you?
Casey: 2:39
Yeah, I've always said and advocated for taking the nonlinear path in life and in entrepreneurship and business and in all the ways. I remember one point in my career kind of, where I found myself in San Francisco working at a large communications agency and I was surrounded by folks who had gone up the path, where they had maybe studied PR and communications in school and had done the internships and moved through their career very intentionally that way and it was amazing for them and I found myself feeling like a lack of confidence because I found myself in this agency and I'm like who am I? Like after school I went to Denver and like dabbled in the arts and worked in the food industry and was studying leadership and development and kind of was all over the place, but all the while knowing that those explorations were really forming me and rounding me into the type of person and profession I wanted to be. So it's always been this nonlinear kind of path for me. And again, finding myself in the agency, there I had that moment of recognition and reflection of I'm still deserving to be here, although my path looks quite different and actually bringing the intersection of experience I had into something like that agency was essential to do the good kind of work I was doing inside of there. And then also that spirit it's like that hummingbird pollinator spirit that I have of like always seeking knowledge in all these different ways and finding how we weave them together. I think that's really the entrepreneurial drive that's been the foundation for me period and then has since gone on, you know, after I left the agency.
Casey: 4:23
That's when I started my first business, BWB, and recognizing that all those pieces I needed them to be able to start the business, you know, not just being a generalist but being voraciously curious about so many aspects of life and work and how they could come.
Casey: 4:43
And I'll just say one other piece about that, which is that oftentimes in our work with other female entrepreneurs where we're supporting them me and my business partner, Caitlin Fitzpatrick but when we're supporting people, I often tell the story of what I call my year of possible selves.
Casey: 5:00
And this also came at a formative part of my career where it was kind of this choice point of like okay, I'm doing all this work and coaching and leadership development and transformation. I'm also really loving all this work I'm doing in like communication strategy and business development. And then here I am studying energy and Reiki, like what are all these things. And so I always like to just say to different clients we work with to give permission of that exploration, what I called my exploration, a year of possible selves, of like I'm going to, you know, do Reiki and teach yoga and I'm going to simultaneously facilitate leadership groups and I'm also going to hold a full-time job as a communications professional and just allowing it all to be an avenue of potential. And then you know again, once that kind of phase ended for me, it all just merged together in what then became BWB and my path after that.
Julie: 6:02
Yeah Well, and I think that the work that you've done at BWB is really beautiful, working with a real mix of women, you know of female founders and people who are building businesses and making differences in the world.
Casey: 6:19
Yeah, yeah, our goal with BWB again. So BWB, just as background. It is in its most essential category like a brand and business development firm, but really we're in the business of supporting transformation in business and in personal lives. When it comes down to it, some people often joke what you know? We'll sign a contract and they'll start to do a website project with us and then they're like what's happening? You just changed our whole life. And we're like that's the point.
Casey: 6:53
It's not some backdoor scheme, it's just the essence of the work. What we see is really work being for the clients we get to work in and with this devotional path and process of discovery of purpose, of becoming of social impact. And so we like to hold all of that for our entrepreneurs, for our founders, for our business leaders that we work with that. Yes, we may be engaged in a rebrand or we may be engaged in a growth strategy or a product launch, but really, if we don't talk about some of the fundamental, more soulful elements of what's happening and why they're happening in the organizational body or in the individual, the strategy or the end product for us doesn't feel complete in the way that we like to pull through. So that's been the again. All those elements that I bring and that Caitlin has brought into BWB with her background in improv and also leadership and new business development and startup and everything Caitlin's done all again makes what, even though at the end it just says business and brand development, it's that unique kind of underpinning of all of it.
Julie: 8:07
I think it's interesting how that thread of your own exploration and discovery process led you here, where you now help others to kind of do the same.
Casey: 8:21
Yeah, I mean, our journeys are deeply embedded with the journeys that we are going to support others with as well. So if I hadn't walked through or wasn't currently still walking through the path, I don't really know that I would be the advisor for those type of people. Right, I have to understand and a lived experience and a personal matter. Otherwise I'm just kind of reading the book and guessing the formula and offering something that's intellectual, but it's much more complicated. Anybody that's in business understands it's much more complicated than just the theory or what the mind can do. It's all the pieces that have to come and I don't even think in good faith I could offer any counsel if I hadn't really gone through something myself.
Julie: 9:12
Yeah Well, and you're still exploring, which I also think you know. You're making that deliberate time to do the exploration, to continue the exploration. You, you know, whereas lots of people do spend some time exploring, then they dive into something and this sort of tunnel happens and and you're, you know, singularly focused. But that kind of hasn't been your path.
Casey: 9:35
Yeah, yeah, no, um, I don't even know how to be singularly focused. Um, I do a lot of work, um, with a coach. Her name is Maren Goldin and her business is Seeds to Wholeness, but she focuses a lot on the Enneagram and helping. You know, she does transformational and organizational consulting at large, but one of her specialties is in the Enneagram, and so, for folks who are kind of interested or maybe have never even heard of it and want to dabble into it, I have found I've been able to unlock a lot about myself and my own leadership and also how we relate to clients, through understanding my Enneagram profile, which is a seven. So, to your point, Julie, a seven is called the enthusiastic visionary in the Enneagram, which makes a lot of sense in terms of entrepreneurship and in terms of having no ability to have a singular focus because
Julie: 10:31
it's why I like you, because I'm a two.
Julie: 10:37
Yeah, and a two is often like good compliment to a seven as the helper and that stable kind of you know.
Casey: 10:47
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Casey: 10:48
Actually, when we we've been bringing the Enneagram into our coaching relationships, because oftentimes actually I as a coach am most of service to twos, um, and that is on purpose, twos and sevens. But um, that is through the Enneagram makes a lot of sense in terms of the complimentary way that we can enliven and balance each other in those kinds of ways. So it's like twos may seek out enthusiastic, visionary to unlock those parts of themselves or help them express, and then vice versa. But I also have a two in my they call it a tri-type, so I'm a seven, one, two. So I also understand that part of it. But not to go too in the weeds of the Enneagram, but I do. I do recommend anybody to kind of go check it out.
Julie: 11:35
Yeah, we'll put a link. We'll put a link to some Enneagram exploration in the show notes. Cause I would agree with you, I found it to be like I've done a lot of sort of assessment instruments over the course of time and I have found it to be one of the most revealing.
Casey: 11:50
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Like. We just did a big rebrand project with an architecture firm in Chicago and there were multiple team members, there were multiple components of the project, and so we actually kicked off the project with a Enneagram session with all of us so we could understand how I could be the best project lead for them creative advisor through the process, strategic advisor, and then they could also contextualize and understand how my feedback and counsel may show up for them. It led to we finally just launched and it led to a really successful process because, again, not only did we choose to work with each other based on values and quality of work and alignment and other ways, but it was like, okay, we're committed to this shared relationship and how we can understand each other to get the best product and also make the process feel good. You know, oftentimes it's overly focused on the end product without thinking about like, how are we carrying each other through the process?
Julie: 12:54
Yeah Well, and I think it's a really interesting part because I think often the sort of consulting relationship can run into friction because you know, scope didn't get fully understood. There's people walk away with different impressions and understanding where those might come into play can be really helpful.
Casey: 13:15
Yeah, right, and like why you know? So then I can understand everybody has different levels of information processing or how they like to receive information. And then so I can know ahead of time like, oh okay, this person may actually need more of the details than you know and may need to have more of that explanation through a visual. Okay, I can be able to walk through the contract that way, you know. Again, it's really about just meeting each other the best we can with the knowledge we have, versus just assuming that whatever process we have in place is going to make sense for everybody, and and vice versa.
Julie: 13:51
Yeah, oh, that's so interesting, yeah, so now you've got another business, the restaurant a little bit, because I mean, that's a very different business from the agency. And also, you know, living in like opening a restaurant in a small place, the community building, the things that go along with making a success of that.
Casey: 14:16
What led you on that path? Well, again, it's that little hummingbird inside of me. I and the food industry was my first job. I started off as like a busser in a small Italian restaurant in my hometown and I think once you catch the bug of the food industry and the spirit of it, which it always captured me being able to feed people, take care of people, love people, show people a special time Even from that age, I kept trying to do other things in my career and I'd always come back to it.
Casey: 14:47
Even the agency I was talking about that I worked in in San Francisco. It was in food, marketing and comms. Anytime I tried to kind of venture into, you know, just doing communications or just doing coaching. It's like I came back into food in one dimension or another. And my husband is a chef. So we met each other out in San Francisco when I was out there in that agency and he is a chef and it was always a longtime dream of his.
Casey: 15:17
So I believe firmly in business partnership. So one thing to name as my first business BWB is through partnership with Caitlin, and this business, kodai Kitchen, is in partnership with my husband, and I find something so deeply important, affirming and valuable about being in business partnership with somebody. So I don't think I ever would have opened a restaurant on my own. It was not my dream alone, but it was our shared dream and something that I knew I could really support him in realizing in a new way. So we've had the restaurant for about a year and a half now and it's a whole different, a whole different animal from the agency.
Casey: 16:03
You know our agency is remote team. It's comprised of a small, small team across the US, primarily North America more broadly, and this is like brick and mortar small town where I grew up actually, like literally on the street that my grandma and my mom were raised on. You know my dad was raised on the neighborhood away from there. So there's something truly special about my values of community and belonging and then getting to express that in a really different format and medium with the restaurant.
Casey: 16:44
I will say balancing two businesses with two small children has brought me to task, I think, with that seven part of myself and that hummingbird part where actually it's been so humbling to be in a place where I'm ready to I'm ready to kind of like not necessarily pull back, but I'm satiated. You know there's no need for the continuous what's next or that, that hunt, or that hungriness that I've always had in myself. Having the two expressions, I find my hungriness coming back for more internal time, more time for reflection, more time to just come home and be with my children and be normal with it.
Julie: 17:32
So you know, sometimes I think having the two had to stretch me to the point where I realized I start to think more deeply about what, what's important for me in the, in the long term, of my legacy and it is that piece, like we all have, like seasons, and so the season you're in right now, like I'm sure that at another point in time that hummingbird will come back and want lead, want to lead you somewhere else, um, because that's sort of the innate piece within you.
Julie: 18:03
But it's so important to appreciate also the place you're in now
Casey: 18:09
yeah, yeah, and it is as I'm saying, it's coming back, but it's in these more like um, less about the external production or creativity, and it's more those like quieter parts where it's coming back and just looking for more time to read a book and like get back into the body and and get back into time to be with the kids out on a nature walk or something like that, you know. So it's, it's there, but it's shifting and I've actually talked with a few other women. I'm I'm 40, turned 40 this year, and I've talked with some other women business owners and I think I'm on the younger cusp of that. Some of them are, you know, maybe 10 years older than me. But about this, this point where then it becomes about who I am again and turning inward, versus like this full external expression which again it's all interconnected and ebbs and flows.
Julie: 19:07
But I am just noting it as an interesting um in like shift that's happening in the entrepreneurial and it's so interesting because I've I've reached this place now, where my kids are all in their twenties. And so I have really felt that shift as they kind of step into their own and, like you know, seem like they're getting launched and getting off into their own things. Uh, it opens a different door Right, and so it's interesting. Transitions and and and places are always kind of interesting explorations.
Casey: 19:41
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And, like the the Marin, who, the coach that I work with, we leveraged the Enneagram to talk about that of like, not that any of this isn't my soul work, because all of it is my soul work, but there's like other other parts of my soul now that are like like younger parts where I used to do poetry or creative writing and all these pieces where I'm like, hmm, what are these coming back on board for and where is that bringing me down the road? Is it is writing coming back in my life, or you know all those kinds of things, and not trying to overly pin it down just yet, just getting curious about what's showing up and what that means for me in this next era of the career path.
Julie: 20:27
Yeah, yeah, I think it is, you know that, exciting. I think we can't always look outward and reach and reach and reach right. So looking inward it becomes an important part of the journey and and valuing that, I mean I think I have not always valued that.
Casey: 20:46
Yeah, and I know you mentioned the questions to hold deck that we have and the process that we have. But questions to hold is, yay, that's a beautiful design by Kelly Sangle. It's a beautiful design. Yeah, Kelly Sangle was a designer with us and she did that design intuitively. So you know we can. That whole process was a little bit of intuitive and how it started was in coaching relationships.
Casey: 21:12
Many years ago about 10 years ago, I started coaching people one-on-one or, and you know, at the end of the coaching call they'd be like so what's my action step? And I was like, do I have to be a good coach and give them an action step? Like there was this part of me that was resisting that and I really, really realized why. And what I started to quote assign was a question to hold. And I said rather than, okay, yeah, we could like task master this and I could give you 10 tasks to take care of between now and the next coaching call, but that's not the kind of accountability I wanted to offer my clients. And so I said, what if we just opened up a question to hold? And that would be something that emerged in the conversation, could be as simple like am I happy? Or it could be something like, do I have enough, for example, and they seem simple on the surface, but when you really if you really kind of like take that practice to heart and take a full week and really just hold that question, not trying to answer it, just being really curious about it and asking yourself over and over like am I happy? Am I happy, am I happy?
Casey: 22:29
As a process, it reveals so much to us.
Casey: 22:33
You know about so many things that may or may not be related to work, but what I found in doing that with coaching is then they'd come into the next session and it would be like a profound shift or an insight came through or something transformative, as you said, like really taking the interior world into consideration and being like I know we were just building this growth strategy, but I'm recognizing that it's more in line with my ego or it's about something more aggressive than I'm recognizing that it's more in line with my ego or it's about something more aggressive than I'm interested in.
Casey: 23:03
And actually what I want is X, whatever it was. You know so that questions to hold practice has been a core part of my own practice what we share with clients and then became a deck, you know, a few years ago, to give to people, to kind of really have something physical and tangible to be in that remembrance of. You know, not to just steam, roll ahead and bulldoze ahead and really invite into your leadership this questioning of, and constant dialogue with your life, basically of, like, what are we doing here and is it what we want to be doing?
Julie: 23:43
Yeah, it's like as entrepreneurs, we spend a lot of time doing. We have goals, we have plans, we have task lists and ways we're getting there, but we don't always spend time just being, and to me, that's what this deck really makes me think about is like taking some time to, to spend in the being you know how do I want to be and how does that reconcile, then, with how I go into the world as a doer.
Casey: 24:12
Yeah, and in the being, again, it's like. Sometimes for people it feels counterintuitive. It's like, okay, okay, just tell me what to do. For people it feels counterintuitive. It's like, okay, okay, just tell me what to do. Or like what's the next step? Right, I get that Totally, I can relate to that.
Casey: 24:28
But in the being is the next step, you know, oftentimes, and it's a slower process or it's a quieter process and and maybe a little bit more nuanced than just like what's the next step logistically to get me there? And again, it's a combination of both. In business we have to be doing both, but I think it's that being part that we're hoping to take more of a stand for, because that is actually where some of that essential information is, that gets overrided, and we don't want to be 10 years down the road and be like, oh no, I never listened to that part and now you know in hindsight like that was telling me all these things all this time, and so I think if we can just build the forward momentum with that part of ourselves, we'll get, you know, maybe somewhere different and somewhere more fulfilled in the end of it.
Julie: 25:24
Yes, with intention. Yeah, you know it comes to like how do you? And I mean I can say I think that my work with Big Gorgeous Goals really came out of being a doer and not spending enough time being. And then, when I had to spend time being, I did not know what to do with myself.
Casey: 25:38
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I hear that a lot. I mean, my father was a business owner and an entrepreneur and that's kind of what I grew up around and I really was inspired by seeing what he was able to do. And then retirement was like a trickier phase because it was like all this focus on providing for the family and growth and external motivation, which was amazing and he's incredible. But what happens when that feels like it's not being met in the same way for us? You know, I think a lot of people can relate to that, and so we want to hold on to an identity that is more more complete, I think, than just what we're accomplishing or achieving in that way. And I remember when we were working together on on big, gorgeous goals in your way, and reading the book and getting familiar with your work, I thought a lot about that for myself.
Casey: 26:32
Again, this was a few years ago, so I had, like this, I still had more, a stronger kind of like entrepreneurial drive, in that way of like, yes, what's like bigger, where do I want to go?
Casey: 26:43
How am I encouraging myself to get out of my comfort zone and not be blocked by anything and really look into that big, vast possibility for myself. And now, as I've over the last couple of years, I've really thought about my big, gorgeous goals, including a lot more things than I originally was including in that thinking, you know, especially in terms of my commitment to my children and what I want that to be, my commitment to just like my life, like being in my life. You know, like there's so many other ways now where before, when I was reading your materials, thinking like, oh, yes, I have all these big, gorgeous goals and what do I want to do? And you know it was very oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, idea, idea, idea, idea. And I feel a little bit more humbled in that process now of like what is a big, gorgeous goal for me? That includes all of my, all of it, you know.
Julie: 27:46
Yes, and that, and I do think they are about life work, like all the pieces coming together for that big overarching, how you want to be in the world.
Casey: 27:56
Yeah, yeah, and I think that that makes for me and I know we've talked about this differently that makes like growth and scale. It changes. It changes my trajectory of it and my relationship to it, not that I don't want to have it, but in a way of like I'm redefining that for myself in a way that can feel sustainable and like my own definition of it.
Julie: 28:26
Yes, yeah, and it is these different phases of life that we come to, where we redefine what it is that we are able and want to do in those different times.
Casey: 28:40
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and like who knows where I'll be in five years or, you know, in 10 years or 15 years, like, and I think one of the things on questions to hold has also become a podcast that I host.
Casey: 28:52
But this season what we're focusing with people on is just the sheer amount reality and that can feel scary to some people about the way change is showing up in the world right now and in our individual lives, and so I think there's also, in being in dialogue with all these different leaders about how they're holding change or how they're supporting people through change, it's really helped me just understand that this false notion of control, you know, or anything that I've liked to enjoy, to believe it's all just an illusion in these ways, and that wherever the road is headed, you know, like how there are all these tools to be with change, and wherever it is, five, 10 years from now, I can still have these big, gorgeous goals you're talking about. I can still have all of this, but it's going to change. It already is. It's evolving now and I can't know what it is, and that's okay.
Julie: 29:51
No, and one of my observations right now is is we really you've got to lean into the wind a little bit, because we can't simply protect what is? Because it can be like, you know, the sand sliding through our fingers, and so we've got to be aware of what is, because it can be, like, you know, the sand sliding through our fingers and so we've got to be aware of what is and do what we can, but we kind of have to lean into the wind a little bit and look for what's coming.
Casey: 30:13
Yes, and I think you know different people feel differently about leaning into the wind with it, and you know, I know that even with like the work I've done in the spaces to like in facilitation or in training to develop more skills here, like even just like breath work or movement practice or change philosophy, things like that there's it's still scary right. So, like, we still need conversations like this, we still need community networks and just resources where we all are supporting each other and leaning into the wind, which I know is actually what Big Gorgeous Goals is about too. It's about not having them in isolation but supporting each other in Big Gorgeous Goals and making it about, yeah, having a community effort with it yeah, having a community effort with it.
Julie: 31:06
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm a pretty big believer in that. Community is a big way in our lives to make things better. That doing anything alone is harder, whatever it is, whether it's a task or you know something you're grappling with. But you know, being doing it and closing in and doing it alone is not going to be as easy or successful as having community around you.
Casey: 31:28
Yeah, I totally agree and I think you know we'll say this to certain clients too like being mindful and intentional about what community you're surrounding yourself. In those kinds of situations, especially when it's something like striving for a big goal or moving into uncomfortable territory with yourself, you know it's like who's on that team with you becomes really important, because it could be many things. But even like a small example is like when we're working with clients and let's say they're redoing their brand identity and they're going to share feedback, we say like just, or they're going to ask for, solicit feedback. It's like be mindful of who is giving that to you and and what their, what their role is. Again, not to say don't get feedback from people, but it's like who is that community, who's on your team? Are they uplifting you and seeing you in that higher potential? And if not, what's the kind of, what's the piece they're bringing to the puzzle that you're? You know, I think we can be intentional about who we're trying to surround ourselves with in these bigger times.
Julie: 32:38
And asking the right questions when you want feedback too.
Casey: 32:43
Yes, exactly.
Julie: 32:45
Because you know you leave things too open and you're going to get feedback that isn't actually helpful to you.
Casey: 32:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, it's about we. We led a workshop with a kind of large international organization at one point, caitlin and I, and it was about being able to just identify the need and then name the need. I think that we forget how hard that can actually be to even be able to identify the need or the type of feedback we want. You know, it's like that's the first step, is like well, first step is kind of like even understanding you might want feedback or you have a need that needs to get reconciled, and then, once you have that awareness, it's like okay, what is it, though? Like really getting clear on, like what it is that you're wanting support around, and then, and then the next part of the process is like how do you actually express that and name that and and to who?
Casey: 33:40
And it's a lot more complicated. It's a lot more difficult and complicated than it sounds. You know people are like oh, just say what you need, and I know for myself, I'm like I don't know, like I'm not sure. You know it's been like a process, but it's a good process. I think, especially in anybody who's listening, that's in any kind of like business leadership, to really, really get articulate with your words and what it and identifying what it is that things are kind of calling you forward.
Julie: 34:10
No, I think it's so important and we don't do enough of it. That's the real truth, and because we don't do enough of it, it gets more and more difficult to access.
Casey: 34:22
Yeah.
Julie: 34:23
Practice right.
Casey: 34:24
Like so many things in life, we get better when we practice it's just building the muscle and not being scared to not know how to do it or, like you know, any of those kinds of things. And again, that's like that comes down to being around people who are holding you in a higher, higher potential and, you know, with intention and goodness, so that you can try on that muscle and not feel threatened by it.
Julie: 34:49
No, exactly Practicing and failing, you know, like things not going exactly the way you want, and practicing again and doing it in that state where you do feel held.
Casey: 35:01
Yeah, I I in as I'm getting older. I recently found strength training and when I'm in the gym they always say like I want you to fail and I'm like I don't want to.
Julie: 35:14
I don't like failure.
Casey: 35:16
I don't like that.
Casey: 35:18
But it's been this really actually interesting thing and even this morning in the process, like they were having me do something and it was like I couldn't do it and they were like we want you to fail, like failure is a good thing, and I was just like for like my nervous system and everything, and I think so many entrepreneurs would understand this.
Casey: 35:35
There is so such a huge amount of pressure all the time and I have that the one I mentioned in the Enneagram, which is a perfectionist, and it's really internally driven on. I don't critique others on that standard, I critique myself and there's so much pressure to always maintain public perception, always do it right, always be the step ahead, always, never do the failure. So I was having this moment in the gym today when they were nicely nudging me to fail, that I was like I think this is really like just such a critical thing that, like in my next phase that I'm just getting more and more comfortable with, and that goes into like facing the wind, like you're talking about, which is like I don't know there's so much wisdom in the failing and that's super uncomfortable.
Julie: 36:29
Yeah, it's kind of interesting too, though, because it's almost like, if you can learn it on a physical level, can you take up to you know, your work and into your head in a way that maybe it's an easier gateway. I don't know.
Casey: 36:44
Yeah, exactly, but I was appreciative of this person reminding me of this this morning and I know that they love me, so it wasn't okay somebody telling me to fail, but I was like I'm so uncomfortable failing. I was like, oh, I think I got a growth edge here that I got to-.
Julie: 37:00
Definitely and I really feel like that's the story for all of us is chasing those growth edges and seeing where they take us.
Casey: 37:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and laughing along with it. You know what I mean. Like things can feel so serious all the time and I just think about that a lot. Like thank goodness for my children, because when my life feels so serious and my kids are like, do something really silly, and I'm like, oh yeah, like life is just it's, it's all just life, you know what I mean. Like we just have to, it's just what it is. And my kids are a huge, huge reminder of that for me every day. Of like, oh yeah, don't get swept away in this stuff. You know, there's always just like this, the silly face, or something like that.
Julie: 37:47
And there's always a way to figure out what seems like the most difficult of problems. Yeah, yeah, exactly, good. Well, thank you so much for chatting with me today. It was a great conversation and I'm so glad to reconnect.
Casey: 38:04
Yes, I appreciate it. I appreciate for everybody listening and thank you so much.
Julie: 38:10
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